RoR: Forum

Ashley quipped:

What harms your children is the constant reinforcement of a victim mentality that turns them all into a bunch of sniveling pussies.

ROTFLMAO! Well said!

Post 1

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 9:48am

Note the following bit of geographical ignorance from the spokesman for San Diego State University:

"[T]he Aztecs are not a North American culture, but a culture that was based in what is now Mexico," said Jack Beresford, a university spokesman.

Check a map, Jack.

Post 2

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 10:17am

Victim mentality is right. I have always thought that we named sports teams after Indian tribes because we think they're cool! I mean, in what way can "the Fighting Illini" be construed as derogatory?

There is an extreme example in my past. The high school in my hometown of Pekin, IL had a team called the Chinks... until political correctness kicked in around 1980 I believe. Now, even though the term Chink can be used in a derogatory manner, I don't think it was the case with our school. I mean, the fight song had "we are the Chinks" in it. If you're calling yourself something, is it derogatory? Incoming freshmen got a copy of the Guide for New Chinks & Chinklets.

Here in Tucson, Hispanics put a stop to the practice of throwing tortillas at the U of A graduation ceremony because it was seen as culturally insensitive or something. There again, I think it was done out of affection; it denotes an embracing of the Hispanic culture we are able to enjoy here. I wonder if it's a sense of inferiority that causes people to take offense in such situations.

Post 3

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 10:24am

What??!! Fighting Illini is banned??!! Unbelievable.

Post 4

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 10:40am

I'm sure PETA will start putting the pressure on to ban animal names and mascots as well.

Pretty soon all that will be allowed is corporate sponsorships (Coke vs. Pepsi) and numbers. Let's hear it for the fighting Zeros!!!!! Rah.

Post 5

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 12:40pm

Laure Chipman said: There is an extreme example in my past. The high school in my hometown of Pekin, IL had a team called the Chinks... until political correctness kicked in around 1980 I believe. Now, even though the term Chink can be used in a derogatory manner, I don't think it was the case with our school. I mean, the fight song had "we are the Chinks" in it. If you're calling yourself something, is it derogatory? Incoming freshmen got a copy of the Guide for New Chinks & Chinklets.

Personally, I find naming a team the �Chinks�, as highly offensive and racist. Although I do not believe that anyone, for any reason, has a right to impose on the school/university their own standards; I do believe, that naming a team the �Chinks� is very poor judgment and displays a total disregard (and contempt) for Asian people. Imagine a team called �the Niggers� or the �Kikes�: a team named �the Chinks� descends to that level. Oh, by the way, I could care less how many students got a kick out of singing to a racial epithet that does not apply to them.

But, Laure Chipman also said, �Victim mentality is right. I have always thought that we named sports teams after Indian tribes because we think they're cool! I mean, in what way can "the Fighting Illini" be construed as derogatory? �

I cannot agree more. Overwhelmingly, team names are a tribute or form of admiration. But there are, and have been, exceptions; your �Chink� example, being a glaring example of one of them.

The bottom line is that you cannot pigeonhole this entire debate into a simplistic either-or. There is a significant difference between �the braves� and �the redskins� as terms that convey a certain message. With the former, it is an expression of admiration for an aspect of a culture; in the latter it is derisive. Naming a team �the Zulus� is not the same as, �the Niggers�. This should be obvious to any rational person.

Unfortunately, this debate is presented in an either-or manner. Those in favor of pressuring (not mandating) Universities to eliminate �racist� team names are lumped together with the hysterical PC crowd. Those that object to the hyper sensitive and agenda driven howl over any term that is even remotely racial or cultural, are lumped together with the less than courageous people, which prefer to express their racism in a cutsey and cloaked manner.

The NCAA is the governing body of collegiate sports; as such it has every right to impose the rule it recently did. If the schools really object that strongly, they are free to withdraw themselves from NCAA participation. Do I find their ruling reasonable: no. Do I believe that they are catering to the hysterical PC crowd: yes.

But, let us not pretend that all �team mascots and names� are created equal.

Context matters.

Sincerely,

George, �the Spick� Cordero

(Edited by George W. Cordero on 8/07, 12:45pm)

Post 6

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 1:05pm

You just have to wonder. If they did manage to prevent all mascots around the country from referring to Native Americans, won't someone come around later and demand equal representation of Native Americans among mascots? It would be racist not to have any teams named after them, right? Maybe in a few years we'll see the same people demanding quotas.

Post 7

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 1:28pm

>Imagine a team called �the Niggers� or the �Kikes�

I played softball for the Drunken Micks. I never heard anyone complain about it, but I've rarely heard anyone in Philly complain about racist, offensive, or derogatory language. It's sort of a local specialty.

Post 8

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 1:57pm

Well, the Seminoles at FSU are not taking it lying down - there's a lawsuit filed, with the support of the Seminole Tribe of Florida So much for pc and racism here..

Post 9

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 6:00pm

How come Blacks are allowed to call themselves niggers and Indians call themselves redskins and pretend that it is cool?

If a white European does it however, then he or she is racist.

Post 10

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 6:30pm

Because, according to the 'prevailing wisdom', RACISM is a 'whites only' call - negroes and amerindians, being oppressed people, by definition cannot be racist. Or so they claim.

Post 11

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 7:21pm

Marcus, who do you think you are, you paleface limey honkey?! ;-)

Ashley, I had to do a Google search on "Drunken Mick" to learn it referred to an Irish person. I am still trying to understand the origins for that word. I guess it refers to all the names that start with "Mc" from Ireland. I wonder what got the Irish on that trend for surnames.

(Edited by Luke Setzer on 8/07, 7:26pm)

Post 12

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 7:34pm

Mc means 'son of'.

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 7:47pm

The British name their warships by adjectivals: The Valiant, The Intrepid, The Indefatigable, The Defiant.

Teams could be named The Heros, The Superheros, The Valiant, The Liberators, The Unconquered, The Unforgiven (!!), The Dynamos, The Creators, The Movers, The Prime Movers, The Engines, The Engineers... We have the Boilermakers of Purdue.

If you want natural forces: The Lightening, The Earthquakes, The Volcanoes, the Storm, the Hurricanes, the Tornadoes, the Heat ... The Supernovas!

The Egoists: "42! 19! hike!" -- and everyone runs off wherever they want to ....

Katdaddy's humor aside, certain numbers are powerful: e to the x! e to the x! We're gonna integrate e to the x! How about "e to the pi times i equals minus one" (I think God actually has that on His own game jersey.)

Do not animal mascots worship the non-human, the anti-man? The Cougars, the Wildcats, Gators, Timberwolves etc., what do they say?

Instead of being The Fighting Irish, Notre Dame could call itself The Inquisition or The Inquistors. That would put the fear of God in the opposition like SMU or BYU ... unless they were playing Fordham or Boston College ...

But all kidding aside, teams do not need to be named after tribes, and neither do they need to be named for animals.

Post 14

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 8:05pm

Robert Malcom wrote:

Mc means 'son of'.

Ah. Like "McAbitch" then. Okay.

Post 15

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 8:13pm

Robert Malcom wrote "Mc means 'son of'."

Actually, FITZ means "son of" with Mc or Mac being "of" -- which has nothing to do with calling Irish "Micks" which like "Paddy" is a name: Michael or Patrick, being common Irish names.

"Well, the Seminoles at FSU are not taking it lying down - there's a lawsuit filed, with the support of the Seminole Tribe of Florida So much for pc and racism here."

Actually, the Seminoles of Florida licensed the name of their tribe, but the Seminoles of Oklahoma are among those pressuring the NCAA. Yes, racism is complicated. Not to trivialize the issues in sports licensing markets, but this "my tribe... your tribe" thing applies to recent efforts to ban the export of antiquities. The UN claims that antiquities are cultural patrimony, so a hellenist in America has no right to a Greek coin, statue, etc., found in Asia Minor, but the government of Ankara does have a right to the object.

Post 16

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 8:14pm

George Cordero wrote: "Naming a team �the Zulus� is not the same as, �the Niggers�. This should be obvious to any rational person."

So, your Zulus then have a mascot who comes out dressed in beads and bones and feathers, waving a spear and he isn't really African, but a white guy in black face, and the band plays some rap Afro music while he hops and capers on the court or field. Is that how you intend to honor the Zulus?

Hong Zhang wrote: "What??!! Fighting Illini is banned??!! Unbelievable."

High school haves "quiz bowls" competitive academic game shows. So, if I were the faculty coordinator for my school's Quiz Bowl team, I would opt for a name like The Brainiacs or The Chinese. Everyone knows that Asians are smart, which is why American kids who happen to have ancestors from Asia get graded harder in math and science because everyone knows that Asians are good at math and science. We could have team spirit rallies where we give our Quiz Bowl team players names like Wing Ding and Won Hung Lo -- or maybe have them all named Chin or Wang: Bill Wang, Susan Wang, Charley Wang, Monica Wang... it would just be all in fun of course and really you know honestly just a tribute to the Chinese. (ahem)

Ashley Frazier wrote: " played softball for the Drunken Micks. I never heard anyone complain about it, but I've rarely heard anyone in Philly complain about racist, offensive, or derogatory language. It's sort of a local specialty."

"And in the city leagues it was the Pawnbrokers over the Stormtroopers 14 to 10, with the Banana Peddlers over the Camel Jockeys 8 to 7 in extra innings." Philadelphia, what a town!

Post 17

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 8:15pm

Mc is a shortened form of Mac, and both be variations in gaelic meaning 'son of'... as mine is a slurring of MacCollum - son of Columbia in gaelic

Post 18

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 8:27pm

"Everyone knows that Asians are smart..." and "everyone knows that Asians are good at math and science."

Post 19

Sunday, August 7, 2005 - 8:50pm