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Post 80

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 5:10pmSanction this postReply
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Lance,

You wrote:

After reading what Rand said I find myself questioning Barbara's motives.


How do you know that you are reading everything that Rand wrote? Or, even that what she wrote wasn't self-edited? Surely, if the Branden's are slanted in their view of things (as Adam says), then Rand had her own slant as well.

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Post 81

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 6:06pmSanction this postReply
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Inevitably, Rand is giving us her own perspective. But this perspective casts vital new light on the credibility of the Brandens' accounts.
(Edited by James S. Valliant
on 9/10, 6:07pm)


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Post 82

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 6:18pmSanction this postReply
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I liked Valliant's book.  It made me question Frank's alcoholism, which I had never questioned before, and it gave me some questions about the Branden books that I hadn't had before.  I thought it was fascinating reading, a page turner, and had a lot of interesting points I hadn't thought of before.  I'm kind of glad to see that Lindsay's reading the book and some other Soloists are giving it a bit more of a shot; previously I had thought the book was getting trashed unfairly.

I didn't really agree with the part at the end about "the psychology of a rapist", but, as a person who doesn't know the Brandens personally and currently has mixed feelings about them, I have to say that it doesn't strike me as too terrible to suggest such an idea about someone who had consciously deceived Ayn Rand of all people in such a way for such a long time. 

(Edited by Daniel O'Connor on 9/10, 6:20pm)


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Post 83

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 6:38pmSanction this postReply
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Adam, you wrote:

If I lived there, I would find the fact that a ten-year-resident can be exiled without so much as a hearing, on the unconfronted assertion of the government censor, positively frightening. I do not agree with you about the "evidence" against Peron, because I have seen what appeared to be even stronger cases demolished in court. If he were my friend - as he appears to be Barbara Branden's - I also would not back down until the alleged evidence against him was tested in the open.

Where the hell is this 10-year thing coming from?! He's been here since 2002 on some kind of temporary work permit. He's not a resident. The government has revoked the permit, but given him the opportunity to appeal. It's not quite as draconian as you are making out. As far as court action is concerned, Winston Peters challenged Peron to take him to court when he waived Parliamentary privilege & made his allegations outside Parliament's debating chamber. Peron didn't do so. Instead, he puts his case in bizarre self-interviews on the Internet.

Daniel—I'm not reading the book yet; haven't even ordered a copy. I'm annoyed in a way that it's looking to be necessary to read it at all. I'd far rather see all this shit put behind us. But the more responses I see here the more apparent it seems that there's been an unheard case hitherto—that of Ayn Rand.

Linz

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Post 84

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 7:00pmSanction this postReply
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Linz,

I have two extra copies of the book and will gladly send one of them to you free of charge. Email me with your address.

Consider it a gift to you.

Casey


Post 85

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 7:07pmSanction this postReply
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Casey - Thanks. I've just sent my address to you via SOLO Mail.

Linz


Post 86

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 7:43pmSanction this postReply
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Done.

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Post 87

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 8:08pmSanction this postReply
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RJG(?),

Rand's journals are contemporary with the events. Barbara Branden's book was written years later and Nathaniel Branden's books even later than Barbara's book. The longer the time elapsed, the less reliable the memory; more distorted in the direction the rememberer later finds it convenient for things to have been. I would expect Rand's journals to be much more reliable than books written years after the facts.


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Post 88

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 8:33pmSanction this postReply
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I wish I had the peculiar form of integrity required for affairs, but alas, I know I do not.

For example, when I imagine one of my mistresses harassing me about my other mistresses, the best I can envision myself mustering in response is:

“SugarButt. What the fuck were you expecting?”

Post 89

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 8:57pmSanction this postReply
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Just a note to say "thank you" to the six members who have given me a total of 24 sanction votes for my last post on Frank O'Connor. 

It really does not matter how many voices are raised in defiance of  reason.  Paraphrasing Kira in We, The Living:  If you write a whole line of zeros, you still end up with nothing.  Reality is not subject to majority vote.  The truth will out. 

Dennis


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Post 90

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 9:17pmSanction this postReply
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Dayaamm, this thread has progressed while I was gone!

Linz, all I can say is thank you most profoundly for seeing my side. I assure you that my choice of people I admire is rarely misguided. You wrote movingly about your friendship with Barbara and then you stated:
To lose such a friendship in such a bitter way is a terrible wrench. I wish it could be retrieved.
It can.

It most definitely can.

This needs good will on both sides.

The very first thing that must be done is what you are about to do. Read Valliant's book. You have read Barbara's, so read the other side. I think that truth and examination of facts are always welcome, regardless of where they fall - and I mean that completely objectively for both sides. (Did I say both? Sorry. There are at least eight sides so far and still counting.)

(Also - I can't wait to see your view of his style... //;-)

I will address the other posters in other posts, but let me state something from personal history that has strong bearing on why I have stayed out of the "Frank alcoholic" debate.

As most know already from my articles and posts, I suffered from severe alcoholism for five years and heavy addiction to a hard drug for another five years. During that whole period I worked, produced some really beautiful music and even translated brilliantly. Erratically but brilliantly. Now here's the weird part.

There are people with whom I encountered on an almost daily basis who had no idea that I was strung out. That happened during the alcoholism and during the addiction.

I hid it.

I hid it well.

Even as I craved.

I simply did not let them see me in an altered state.

You might think then that I did not get strung out that badly, but I can assure you that I did. (I am not proud of this - but the reality was extremely bad and the truth no longer hurts - I also want to emphasize that I only mention it because of the present argument.)

I am not saying that this was Frank O'Connor's case, that he was hiding it. I was not there. All I know is that Barbara claims he drank to the point of alcoholism and Valliant reports others who claim that they never encountered him like that.

I know what can be and can't from personal experience. It is easily within the realm of possibility to be a falling down drunk or paranoid crackhead and hide it from people you meet everyday. I did it - for ten years. This is not speculating in an armchair. This is living day after day - and ten years is a very long time.

Let me stress, however, that this knowledge does not mean that I have an opinion about Frank's alcoholism. I don't - because I simply don't know. I only know what people say.

My own take on Barbara's account is that I believe with all my heart and mind that she sincerely believes that Frank was an alcoholic and reported that in good faith. I find it completely contrary to everything I know of human nature to think that she lied.

Could she be mistaken? Sure. Could she be seriously mistaken for any number of non-malevolent reasons? Sure. Could she be correct? Sure. But lie from malice about something like that?

Sorry I ain't buying it.

Linz, that Drooling Beast thing in her mind had no malicious intent whatsoever. I know it stung deep and I wish I could do something to undo the harm. It was completely misguided in my view (as I let her know privately), but I saw absolutely no wish on her part to destroy your reputation or destroy/takeover Solo - or any other evil intent. In her heart she thought she was helping you (James too). She has not told me anything about what I will say next, but here goes. I would bet my boody or anything else that she deeply regrets having hurt your feelings. Underneath everything, she cares for you much more than you realize.

OK, maybe with friends like that, who needs enemies? But Barbara Branden is not you enemy. She never was. I don't think she ever will be, regardless of what course this whole thing takes. And she is terribly hurt too.

Barbara is not dishonest. She might be anything you want to think bad about her, but she is not dishonest. (Even on the Peron issue, her view was not dishonest - blind for a while maybe, but not dishonest - and I ended up furnishing her with damning material to look at. I will not relate anything she said to me at the time, however, as I do not speak for her.)

Back to Frank. I know enough about the dark side of living to know that I consider his alcoholism to be a 50-50 proposition - simply because we rely on the accounts of honorable third parties who say different things. None of us were there (except for a small handful - and even they were not intimate with Ayn Rand and Frank on the level the Brandens were - or even Peikoff).

So what should we do? We should examine everything if we want to come to any conclusion. That's what we should do. Each one of us has a rational capacity to judge. So each should look and judge.

You want to know something even stranger? I am coming to think there is no malice in this whole story at all. I think that Barbara and Nathaniel sincerely believe in what they wrote. And as strange as it may sound coming from me, I think that Valliant also sincerely believes in what he wrote, however misguided I deem his approach to be.

I will not defend Barbara against contradictions of fact and fiascoes. Or even against poor standards of evaluation. (God only knows I've had enough of all of that in my own life.) But I will defend her character against slander (as I defend you). She is not the dishonorable woman that Valliant claims she is. I'll take some of his facts. Others I will not accept due to the extreme bias of his presentation (which I have read for the most part). And I hold no truck with the dishonor.

Michael
(Edited by Michael Stuart Kelly on 9/10, 9:19pm)


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Post 91

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 9:33pmSanction this postReply
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I mean nothing by this. Really I don't!

But,

Just a note to say "thank you" to the six members who have given me a total of 24 sanction votes for my last post on Frank O'Connor. 
How do six members get 24 votes on one post? Is voting tiered somehow?

Really! I'm was only reading and came across this and it made me go, Hmmmm?

You can send me the answer via private mail if you want, I'm not trying to stir up anything! It's just that I can't vote more than once!


gw


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Post 92

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 9:42pmSanction this postReply
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Gary,

The number of points your sanction is worth increases over time according to the total number of points you have.

For example, I just sent you five big ones to demonstrate.

Michael


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Post 93

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 9:50pmSanction this postReply
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I've been re-reading The Passion of Ayn Rand for the first time in many years and no one could have written the words Barbara Branden did without sincere and abiding love for Ayn Rand.

--Brant


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Post 94

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 9:54pmSanction this postReply
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Send 'em back, Gary. Heh, heh.

(Just kidding.)

What's worse than that kind of behavior is saying there's a 50/50 chance Frank O'Connor was a drunk based on Barbara Branden's lame, second-hand -- oh Jesus, I'm repeating myself. That's why it took a book to answer this stuff in the first place.

Just read it.

I have one more copy I'm willing to lose money to send to someone, so email me as Linz did if you want it, with your address. First come, first serve.

Casey

(Edited by Casey Fahy on 9/10, 9:55pm)


Post 95

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 9:59pmSanction this postReply
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Amigo,

I see!

Thank you very much! (the points were not necessary!)

I knew it was either pure dastardly doing or simply standard operating procedure!

I really did not know!


And you have 5 votes eh? Shall I become your sycophant! 


gw


Post 96

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:02pmSanction this postReply
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Casey, are you a guy or a gal? My real estate agent is named Casey and he is a she.

--Brant


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Post 97

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:04pmSanction this postReply
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I'm a guy.

Casey

P.S. Sorry about that -- I, too, wish there were a few more gals out there like me who could and would lay it down like me in defense of Ayn Rand. Laure comes to mind as one of the brave ones, though; I admire her for that. So does the Magenta Hornet, it seems.

Hell, even I think it would be nice if Casey was a woman.

Casey
(I have a twin sister, though...)

(Edited by Casey Fahy on 9/10, 10:17pm)


Post 98

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:09pmSanction this postReply
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I still think the Hornet is James Valliant, which he has yet to deny. If he denies it I'll take his word for it. I might even apologize for insulting him. BTW, I wasn't trying to win an argument (I don't think I was) by insulting him, I was (I think I was) just trying to insult him. I know that a twirp's twirp is pretty high on the totem pole.

--Brant

PS: If the Hornet denies he/she/it is James Valliant I won't take his/her/its word for it.

(Edited by Brant Gaede on 9/10, 10:12pm)


Post 99

Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 10:16pmSanction this postReply
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BTW, if James Valliant admits he is the Hornet, I'd admire him for it. Great idea to buzz into this place like that--incognito and all that, but with quite a sting, the sting one can deliver wearing a mask.

--Brant


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