RoR: Forum

Just a quibble.... there is no such thing as "absolute liberty of the 'state of nature'." Liberty is a condition that has to be achieved by instituting and maintaining some mechanism, like a government based upon individual rights, that creates an environment free of coercion. Liberty doesn't grow on any of those trees in nature.

Post 1

Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 11:15am

Thanks for the input, Steve.

I agree with your criticism. It's a good point. My wording was wrong. I, at the time I wrote it, had wondered whether I should use the true term for what it is that you have in nature -- i.e., license (not liberty) -- but accidentally decided that "liberty" was acceptable if qualified by the contextually-counterfactual term "absolute." I made a judgment call. No one has any real liberty when everyone -- and perhaps even when anyone! -- has unchecked license to do whatever they please.

Ed

(Edited by Ed Thompson on 7/28, 5:41pm)

Post 2

Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 11:27am

It was just a quibble because it was clear what you meant, and what you understood.

Post 3

Sunday, July 28, 2013 - 5:40pm

Steve,

You know, the funny thing is that while both liberty and license have to do with whether your actions are coerced or not -- they are not even the same kind of a thing (i.e., the same thing measured in 2 different degrees, like on a scale). Instead, they are on different scales (as you alluded).

Ed

Post 4

Monday, July 29, 2013 - 6:57am

Ed:

Maybe 'orthogonal' fits what you mean by that:

Orthogonal: state may vary on one axis without impacting state on another axis.

In an XYZ space, we -can- change the value of either X or Y or Z without changing the value of the other two; the three axes are orthogonal.

Ideas/concepts can be orthogonal in that sense.

We are at liberty to have or not have licenses.

regards,
Fred

Post 5

Monday, July 29, 2013 - 9:12pm

Fred,

I half-agree with that, but the bruiser is that the exercise of licentious activity -- like robbing folks, for instance -- usually or perhaps always infringes on true liberty. So, it is more like they are "antagonal" (antagonists) than being completely orthogonal.

Ed

Post 6

Wednesday, July 31, 2013 - 8:59pm