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Post 0

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 6:03amSanction this postReply
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This struck me as an excellent identification of the source of "rights twisting" in this country.  I've had issues talking to friends & others (who've expressed interest in some of my views on things) because of the perversion of the concept of rights. 

Jason




Post 1

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 6:20amSanction this postReply
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Yes - this 'entitlement' mindset needs be given a going over, and this article does indeed give a good groundbasing of why these are not real rights, and in a format understandable by the 'average joe'......



Post 2

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:22amSanction this postReply
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What a wonderfully important essay, Tibor!
Thank you,

Ed



Post 3

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:39amSanction this postReply
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I loved this essay.



Post 4

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:55amSanction this postReply
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Are almost all popular ideas (other than Rand's and a few others) post-WWI utterly indefensible and WRONG???

The more I think about it, a strong case can be made for exactly that. O r msot of them, anyway.

Let's take the farmer example. "Every farmer has the right to get a fair return on his crops so that he can support his family." Or words to those effect.

If the market doesn't pay a farmer enough for a crop, he can change crops or change businesses. If farmers don't do this, in aggregate, then you have precisely the sort of unavailability of needed goods and economic inefficienies that the former Soviet Union suffered from--as any managed economy MUST. "Screwing up the economy" is abstract for most people. It doesn't display the hungry face of one man or one child, so maybe it doesn't have the emotional appeal of one farmer fallen on hard times. But a clever guy or gal will realize that, in aggregate, an inefficient economy means that HUGE NUMBERS of people have far less prosperity than they ought.

I can think of only three alternatives which would allow someone in this context to conclude there is such a right: (1) ignorance of basic economics; (2) Evasion of knowlege in favor of a popular platform for political purposes; (3) the infiltration and popularity of essentially Communist ideas that are so popular in leaders of the era.

All politicians want to indelibly leave their mark on history. FDR did, but in ways other than he intended.

Another great article by Machan.



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Post 5

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 10:51amSanction this postReply
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Some folks on SoloHQ may be interested in the fact that a fairly prominent academic philosopher, James P. Sterba--of the University of Notre Dame philosophy department--has been arguing for years that libertarianism implies positive (entitlement type) rights. Nearly every one of his books repeats this claim--see, for example, the most recent, The Triumph of Practice Over Theory in Ethics (Oxford University Press, 2005)--despite the fact that libertarians such as Eric Mack, Jon Narveson, Douglas Rasmussen and I have worked to disabuse him of this notion. (It is noteworthy that Sterba manages to get his anti-libertarian position published all over the place, with pretty formidable publishing houses, whereas when I propose a work defending libertarianism to these same houses, I receive a flat rejection!)
      Sterba's argument is based on the premise that in certain emergency circumstances (those Locke, Rand, Mack, I, and others all acknowledge to be possible but very special in conditions of liberty) basic rights may be disregarded (at least temporarily); from this, in a typical geometrical-analytical philosophical fashion, he deduces that these rights are not binding even in normal circumstances, so that the very poor, for example, may take "the surplus wealth" of the rich to enable them to function effectively and this should then be codified in a just system of laws.
       In response to the point about how these "hard (emergency, exceptional) cases make bad (ordinary, normal) law," Sterba argues that in bona fide free societies like those libertarians champion, these cases would not be exceptional but quite numerous, even typical. (In short, he takes issue with the case that argues that in free societies there would be comparatively fewer poor who are helpless, strictly unable to fend for themselves [as distinct from being negligent or otherwise imprudent and deserving of their poverty] the other systems such as the welfare state. My forthcoming Libertarianism Defended [Ashgate, 2006], draws on a wealth of historical and analytic evidence to prove him wrong on this point.)




Post 6

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:17amSanction this postReply
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Tibor,

Thanks for the heads-up on Sterba.  It's certainly useful to be forewarned and forearmed against such ridiculous notions as those he's spreading. 

Look forward to the new book.  Be sure to let us know when it's published!

Jason




Post 7

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 11:25amSanction this postReply
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Scott,
I have to disagree with you on only one point:
"All politicians want to indelibly leave their mark on history. FDR did, but in ways other than he intended."

I think the current situation is very much what he intended.





Post 8

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 1:58pmSanction this postReply
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Jeff, you could very well be right!



Post 9

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 2:31pmSanction this postReply
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This is a wonderful article. The damage done by Roosevelt with his fraudulent rights is ongoing. The 21st century needs to correct the damage of the resultant welfare state created during the 20th century. It will not happen, unless this moral position is understood.



Post 10

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 3:09pmSanction this postReply
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You know what really gets my goat about the guy?

I can't decide how to pronounce his name.

I mean, really, is it ROSE-A-Velt?

or

Ruhz-A-Velt?

No good can come of a man with a name with two equally valid pronunciation options. It violates the fargin rule of identity.
(Edited by Scott DeSalvo
on 5/20, 3:09pm)




Post 11

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 5:54pmSanction this postReply
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Teddy was a rose, FDR was a ruse........:-)




Post 12

Friday, May 20, 2005 - 8:04pmSanction this postReply
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Great points Machan. Could you please give me an example of an emergency situation where it is best to over-ride people's freedom from initiation of force?



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Post 13

Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 5:19amSanction this postReply
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If I am innocently starving near someone's home who isn't there but I am able to enter and obtain food from the fridge, I ought to do it and make arrangement to settle matters later, once I've recovered. This doesn't cancel anyone's property rights but disregards them momentarily under circumstances where rights are inoperative (or as Locke supposedly put it, "when politics is impossible"). This shows that the morality of rational self-interest is prior to the theory of individual rights and in those extremely rare cases in which individual rights conflict with the morality of rational self-interest, the latter must be honored.



Post 14

Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 7:02amSanction this postReply
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I can see where Sterba gets his foot in.
cases in which individual rights conflict with the morality of rational self-interest, the latter must be honored.
There are no such conflicts. Objectivism is all that I am, all I'll ever be. If you're right it's of no small matter.

When once I was absorbed by Star Trek I genuinely, personally, worried every time somebody beamed down to strange new worlds. Anything could happen in an alien environment, the expectations of the adventurers might be false, the food and air might be poison, their weapons might fail, their knowledge of the physical rendered utterly useless. I'm resistant to letting fiction move me but this fear was too close to home. The only thing Enterprise crew could take with them and count on was their wisdom, their philosophy- and realising that was a huge relief to me.

We want to see things now as they will be forever. We want to know life beyond merely being alive, intellectually apprehend and comprehend the spirit of our age- and then transcend it. Be able to answer the question, as to weather the Universe is benevolent. We want the insight to laugh in the face of death and the courage to spit him in the eye.

We want rights that are persistently inalienable and so logically invulnerable that the wildest objection scenarios and most improbable emergencies do not shake them. Bring them on!We want no circumstantial exceptions, no concessions to realities outside the scope of the philosophy because these do not preserve Objectivism- they slay it.

God is not dead; You are not right.




Post 15

Sunday, May 22, 2005 - 11:38pmSanction this postReply
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Rick, I've sent you SOLO mail.

Ed



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